<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><div id="yiv1610748169">Hi to everyone !<br><br>Please, i need some help with my project, I want to install windows XP on a server block device & AoE sanboot, diskless clients from it...preferably there'll be a single block device on a ram disk for booting multiple clients but i've been told that clients' writes would corrrupt the file system so, i need a way to make it read-only & would also need your help on the issues discussed below:<br><br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br><br><div id="yiv234495976">
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<div id="yiv573288631">
<div id="yiv842102322">
<div id="yiv1385992584">
<div id="yiv965988445">
<div id="yiv992315160">
<div id="yiv129343879">
<div id="yiv814093087">
<div id="yiv2032858419">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Shao Miller wrote:</span></font></tt> </p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">With that much RAM, you
could fit a stripped-down XP entirely as a RAM disk. I have a 204 MB XP
which includes enough features that it has been extremely useful for
diagnostic purposes. With the right control of BOOT.INI, it boots on
any hardware. It has also been quite useful to gather up
platform-specific device device nodes in the Device Manager and allow for
easy export and pre-installation into a Windows image which is intended to be
deployed to that platform.</span></font></tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">It'd be interesting to
strip down the size of win XP to some point only if it doesn't compromise the
compatibility with the software i need to install & can be easily
reproduced by others.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Yes, I suppose a temporary
directory on a RAM disk could offer some performance benefits, as long as you
don't run out of room! Really, I would like to see something akin to
Linux' rootfs on Windows, and will be working towards that at some point.
In a rootfs, there is no block device for the filesystem to be on, just as a
network filesystem does not have a block device (as far as the client is
concerned). In this scenario, we'd merely use RAM without the block
device layer, as the filesystem could be sized dynamically. Anyway,
that's not quite what you were talking about. :) What RAM disk software
do you think you'd be using? I'm curious.</span></font></tt></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Sorry, but I'm
not sure I fully understand this rootfs trick + for Linux there's already
"fast diskless deployment framework"(faddef) (it's in French) &
seems to be simple & portable...the RAM disk software I intend to install
is the AR RAM Disk from ARSoft because it's free </span></font><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.arsoft-online.de/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=43&func=fileinfo&id=3"><font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">http://www.arsoft-online.de/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=43&func=fileinfo&id=3</span></font></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">This is not necessarily
so. You can use a local HDD for paging without having the filesystem
available for general use (for saving files to). Bo Brantén has offered
SwapFs, for example. Essentially, if you can make a filesystem
available to the paging system but not to the user, you're pretty safe.
Also, the filesystem could be wiped and rebuilt easily at every boot. I
guess that would require some invetigation, though. If you wish to be
diskless, you wish to be diskless.</span></font></tt></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">This is interesting
but, Yes, i prefer to go diskless + a local disk makes the boot process last
longer & if you add the time of rebuilding the FS at each boot it'll be
inacceptable...I had an experience with a spyware that just automatically
found any drive on the computer & copied itself on it, it copied itself
even INSIDE the archives. (zip or rar or both i can't recall)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">The HDDs on the
clients? Do you mean their SAN connection? You said they should
be diskless, so I assume you mean their SAN connection.</span></font></tt></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Well, I mean the HDDs that are in use on the PCs
now, their avg throughput is around 50MB/s, if they are replaced by an
ethernet link capable of ~70MB/s & the SSD on the server is capable of
200MB/s max write, with 100 clients will it make any I/O jam on the server ?
(the server should be connected by a gigabit ethernet link to the switch or
more with link agregation)</span></font><br>
<br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">If the first client sends his 70MB
in the first seconde then, the 100th client will be able to send its 70MB
100sec after the first one :( resulting in a 0.7MB/s real network throughput,
i'm I right ?</span></font><br>
<br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I've already booted XP over a
fast ethernet link ~10MB/s...to have the same performance i'll have to
agregate 8, gigabit links...OUTCH !</span></font></p>
</div>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></tt></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Nevermind,I'll try to post to gPXE in a few days
when the discussion about the new release will settle a bit, I think i'll end
up dividing the clients by department & have around 20 clients per
server, for now it's better & cheaper than building a 10GB/s switched
back bone & using a 10GB/s capable server.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Caching and a good
copy-on-write strategy would be strong variables if your SAN target software
can take advantage of the large quantity of RAM, in my opinion. Using
SSD for 100 clients would suggest a rather large storage capacity and a
rather large expense, though... Are you sure that's the setup you'd
like to use?</span></font></tt></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Well, not quite sure !
I'm doing my project(6months practice for my ACS) at a big company so, I
don't want to tell them it's imposible, i'd rather say this is what it costs
& here are the benefits! If the whole thing won't cost more than
~4000euro(~price of 100HDD) it'll be "sellable" & I'd have
reached my goal, i've presented my project & said it was for ~10PCs, they
let me start & then ask me how can we benefit from it?...we have 100 PCs
on the same LAN<img id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/11.gif" width="18" border="0" height="18">.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">If each of your 100 clients
are _writing_ at that rate on average, I don't think you'd have capacity,
since for 100 clients, your server would be requested to write roughly 5
GB/s! With iSCSI, the SAN software should report an I/O error to
clients and they would retry the write. Your user experience might be
impacted. An example might be if you had the media arts classes at a
few schools simultaneously trying to save their work at the end of
class-time. There are some pretty quick SSDs out there, though.
What do you think?</span></font></tt></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">What I think is, send
me a link to those quick SSDs, how fast they are ? how much do they cost
& where to get'em from ?</span></font> <br>
<br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">The director of the IT department
wants to implement this for his engineers who are mainly using Oracle Client
9i, PL/SQL Developper,Oracle Développer 6i & MS Office 2003.</span></font><br>
<br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I've presented my project as
intended for "small labs" in schools ...etc & they want me to
make it an industry level beast <img id="_x0000_i1026" src="http://mail.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/34.gif" width="18" border="0" height="18"></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Alternatively, you could
avoid the block device layer and simply use a network filesystem protocol for
the user data. Same possible integrity benefits. Having a
dedicated SAN per user makes for an easy quota enforcement policy (they get
what they get due to the block device's size), but that would mean dividing
up the backing store before-hand. You could take a performance hit and
use sparse files as the backing store, or some other layer that keeps a map
of written blocks so that only used blocks are required on the backing store (your
server's SSD).</span></font></tt></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Sorry, I have no experience with NFS, but why not if
it's easy to back up & adds I/O performance ? I thought they could tape
backup iSCSI block devices on a per PC basis (PCname-date), if it is as
simple with NFS it's ok for me.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">You want a sample WireShark
I/O graph of TCP/IP over the course of a day? Again, someone on the
gPXE mailing-list might have one readily available for you. Feel free
to ask. :)</span></font></tt></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Yea, it should be cool...as long as it doesn't
provide ip adresses or network packets information :) just tell me a bit
about the number of clients & the network topology that produced the
graph.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">I am not familiar with device-mapper
for FreeBSD. The driver for NetBSD might be portable.</span></font></tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
<br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">Without copy-on-write, I have compiled the AoE
'vblade' service on FreeBSD with success. Did you mean your server
would be an AoE or an iSCSI server? Or both?</font></tt></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">At the begining the server was meant to run AoE
& iSCSI for 10 to 14 clients but now with a hundred clients i think i'll
have to separate the roles at some point, the number of clients per
department is between 7 & 29 (avg of 18 on 5 departments) but all 102
clients are on the same LAN.</span></font><br>
<br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Me too, i've successfully
compiled & installed vblade on freebsd 6.4 & did an AoE boot from it
(at home) but after the user login the desktop wallpaper shows & the
"server" freezes, always.(it's less powerful P4@1.6GHz than the
client & has less RAM, 128MB & 1GB RAM on the <a rel="nofollow">clientP4@2.66GHz</a>)</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Hmm... If most I/O
are reads and the server has good caching and lots of RAM, it mightn't be
impossible. When clients boot and are using the same applications, much
of this could be cached into the server's RAM. With 8 GB of RAM, you
could fit an entire Windows installation into RAM and have it ready to go for
clients. In my opinion, it's really the writes that are of primary
concern. Writes for paging, writes for user data. A local HDD
helps with this.</span></font></tt></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">That's why i wanted to use a single block device
hosted on a RAM disk, at the begining I thought I could make it read only
with chmod but i couldn't, do you have any idea for making a block device
read only ? </span></font></p>
</div>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><br>
At the begining I wanted to use an enhanced write filter but it's only
available for XPE, maybe windows SteadyState will do the same job ?.</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-color: rgb(16, 16, 255); border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><tt><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">What are the needs for your
environment? Do clients share a lot of data, such as OS, drivers,
applications? How much writing will they be doing? Would a network
filesystem make more sense for user data writes?</span></font></tt></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">On top of windows XP the following softs are
installed: Oracle Client 9i, PL/SQL Developper,Oracle Développer 6i & MS
Office 2003.</span></font><br>
<br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">As i've been told by my tutor,
the clients don't generate a lot of data locally & they are mainly used
to connect to & administer databases on the DB servers that are in the
Data Center .</span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Courier New"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div id="yiv1625766021">
<p class="MsoNormal" style=""><font size="2" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Thank you so much for
all you efforts & Take care of yourself !</span></font><br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">The Mad One.</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
</div></div></blockquote><div id="yiv234495976"><div class="Section1"><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <br></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thanks to everyone !</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The Mad One.<br></span></font></p></div></div><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><div id="yiv234495976"><div class="Section1">
</div>
</div></blockquote></div></td></tr></table><br>